post war
I have a lot going on in my head today- actually over the last 24 hours- and I've tried to post several different topics. Can't choose. Here are some of the thoughts fighting for selection:
- leather and lace: Y the church of all places requires us to thicken our skins to survive in ministry. Y if lace is the fabric of choice for the discerning bride, how come the bride of Christ has to wear leather to avoid being eaten alive by not only the faith community but those in leadership to boot. And since it has taken someone like me 40+ years to toughen up a little bit, how can we expect babes straight out of the Bible College womb to deal with the certain realization that ministry is not always what it’s cracked up to be, and sometimes it’s down right dangerous. It’s more than just the loss of my idealistic perceptions, it’s about jeopardizing the passions the Spirit burns on the hearts of those He calls in the first place and that those who threaten to squelch [flatten, annihilate, destroy] that spirit are often the ones we trust the most to know and do better.
- bubble bath report: Suffice it to say that the leak has been effectively dealt with. Opted for champagne instead of moscato- discovering we were out; opted for generic bubbles from Wal-Mart since the mall closed before I got there; and soaked with my eyes closed instead of reading. It was everything I remembered it to be…
- procrastination conquered for one day: I took Erin’s advice and read my lesson today while I was stoked about yesterday’s study…I may celebrate with a trip to Staples…
- anger management: I am slow to anger. I do not have a temper, not that I can’t ante up if needed. I am just pretty easy going. So where in the world does all this anger come from I thought I put to rest months ago?
- purses: What I believe to be the process by which I eliminate the runner-ups from the perfect bag that joins the ranks of other winners in my collection and why Kevin can’t get his mind around it…
- chandler: My completely healthy, not perverted in any way, shape, or form, love affair with this child.
- chicago: our upcoming train trek to locate the perfect wedding gown. Suggestions welcome…
- sifting: Remembering that Jesus must give permission for Satan to sift us as wheat…and that if permission is given, there must be something there to sift…something He needs us to leave behind before we can go where He wants us to go…
- addicted to blog: May need an intervention before too long. Have Robert Palmer’s melody running through my head…might as well face it…Also wondering who’s reading. Ran into 3 bits of conversation yesterday in random places that people have been reading. Interesting dynamic these blogs…some of you veterans already know this...
- blast from the past: Interesting encounter with someone from the MPCC/PRCC/Crossing history. She had a pretty passionate revelation about things coming full circle…and I do mean passionate...
- progress: I actually hugged two women last night I’ve only just met. I even told one I missed her at Bible study yesterday morning. Odd thing to me.
- anticipation: Going to have dinner with a really good friend I haven’t seen in a while this weekend. Really looking forward to it.
- the ones we don't speak of: I saw 5 people last night that had just come from hearing a pretty major announcement about my replacement at MPCC and no one said a word.
- you don’t want a hump on a butt joint: This is what one of the guys here to fix the hole in the ceiling just said to the other guy as they were mudding the piece of dry wall in place. What?
end post.
posted by ret at 11:58 AM
19 Comments:
Well, mark me down as one of those readers you're curious about :) Congrats to John and Sha... as far as the dresses go, I'd suggest a Maggie Sottero, they're absolutely gorgeous! If you have any questions... let me know... I just happen to be working at my dream job in a bridal shop down here in Carbondale...
Hey girl!! We'll keep that in mind. And yes, that sounds like a dream job for sure. How are things going? We'll keep you posted :) How are Kelley and the parents doing these days? Haven't seen them or you in a while. Hope everyone is good!
Ret, I love the reading, you have kept me interested and on the edge of my seat for a week now:o) I love the info and the insight into YOUR hysterical life:o) NO really, I have missed you and I havent been able to sit on the computer long enough to answer any of this :o) My favorite is leather and lace that is sooo deep I may need boots!!!!!!!!AWSOME Coming from the missionaries kid who spent her life scrutenized, then DIVORCED!!!! whew... good thing I made it out huh?? :o) BUT I am really interested in the feedback of your blog comment of MPCC and the new addition. As someone who is personally struggling with this "announcement" I dont know where God wants us but I feel passionate about NOT having peace on this decision. I am at war with my emotions and fighting every which way of Gods will. I dont want to continue but I am so stubborn that I cant seem to figure it out, I cannot ask anyone else how they feel because I dont want to seem like I am gossipping but are WE the only ones who have a problem with this?????? oh help and yet dont let me gossip, cause it is not me!!!!!!!!! I just cant figure out what to say, unless they want me to be honest in any case could get me kicked out :o) bad... good???? :o) oh well, miss you lots and help me with all your wisdom and understanding :o)
Jenn
of course in addition to the statement from my heart, Andy would like to hear more about "Dont hump on a butt joint" That is just who he is and we love him... for it :o)
Jenn-thanks for posting. And I figured Andy would like that last random thought for the day. [I thought it was funny too...] I need to stop by and talk. Heard you made it to choir Weds. Your first official field trip since surgery? We'll talk soon. Miss you guys.
Jen-I think it's embarrassing we have to prepare people for ministry in that way. And I guess it's not that surprising given the whole people are people thing. What has hurt me so badly is that of those people, the ones up in the front of the line should have a better handle on it than they really do in the end. When people in leadership cause their staff, who they believe have been called according to His purposes to serve at their side, there was an inherent expectation in my head they would protect them and protect the call of God on their lives. Never. Been. So. Wrong.
Thanks for posting. Hope you got all your work done. Been there, done that. Miss it...
For two very long and painful years I thought I was suffering for Christ in "ministry" (albeit a smiling copy girl). In my mind, I was tolerating the festering wounds with the hope that I was learning what was needed to prepare me for His work for my future. I have come to realize that although we suffer through all sorts of injustices and downright awful stuff, it is not what God intends for us. The backstabbing and browbeating that occur to those in Ministry are usually inflicted by other brothers & sisters in Christ and fellow workers in ministry. I believe if we continue to excuse this behavior and "prepare" people by telling them to thicken their skin, we are only enabling the slaughter. And so Pharisees live, walk and wound among us. It was wrong in Christ's day as it continues to be today...
Hello Ret-
I wanted to clarify my last statement (if I may). I believe that suffering is not originally what God intended for us but that He will allow it to get us where we need to be. I just won't be a part of Christians abusing and destroying each other...There. Now I'm done.
I'll offer up some comments. I'm feeling saucy...
Wusses in ministry:
I'm sick and tired of people complaining about ministry. Sometime while they grew up in their Christian Bubble, they had come to the conclusion that church ministry is a piece of cake. I know a ton of people who think ministry in the church is just a never ending "church camp" where they play with kids, sing songs, and read the Bible.
So when they graduate from their Christian College and enter a church ministry, reality slaps them in the forehead and knocks 'em out cold. Only because their parents/mentors/guardians tried to shelter their kids from "evil" things and keep them out of the world, only now do the realize that the world sucks. This shelter continues through Bible College and I'm not at all surprised when people fall out of ministry.
To someone who can't handle the riggors of church ministry (and life in general), please get out of the way. There's someone who can do your job much more better than you, can work with people who aren't so considerate of your decisions, and who have a clue how to lead a ministry.
Bubble Baths:
I might be the only guy in the world who spends time in Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I recommend the "berry" scented oil with a glass of cabaret sauvignon.
Purses:
I struggle with choosing the right briefcase...Of course, it has to have a secret compartment for a firearm or else I won't buy it. Not that I would ever use it, but it's cool to say that I have one.
Chandler:
Of course you love Chandler. He looks like John. =)
History of MPCC:
I love church history...It shows us where our heart is and defines us. I'd be interested too.
Hugs:
I never knew you weren't a hug person; Sorry if I ever hugged you. lol.
Ministry Transition:
What's there to talk about?? You left Madison Park and someone else has been hired to oversee that area of service. I miss seeing you every time I look out from the booth...But no one else made that decision, you did. Talking about it isn't going to change that.
---------------------------
Jen, I would hope that the outpouring of support you've been recieving is "notice from God" enough. I think anymore leading from God would be Jesus Christ coming back to earth and throwing a brick through your window with the sentnce "Stay at Madison Park" etched into it.
Really though, we're trying to help you during this time in your life and if you left, that would be a slap in the face for us all. You can continue to be confused, but I'd invite you to try to wrestle down some of that confusion when members of the choir are helping your kids get ready for school.
Daner,
I want to clarify LEAVING was never a thought I am to stubborn for that.... taking a break from spotlight to sort, maybe, but never did I say LEAVE. I feel some of what you said was harsh,. I grew my whole life in ministry, scrutinized and watched , 26 years later was eaten alive by a church and shunned a single mother of 4 kids.... and you think THIS is going to make ME falter???????????? No, I just want someone to ask me how do you feel about this for a change instead of are you staying????? it is getting old.... how about... what do you think?... is it because you dont care or because, it doesnt matter?????? That is the problem!!!!!! I get passionate about my feelings and convictions but that doesnt mean I falter. I am 30 years old and have been thru more hell in the past 5 years than most people in their lifetime... and my family is still in ministry...... If I ever was to leave the a church it would have been 5 years ago, but I forged on... .
and the comment about help for me and my kids.... harsh... shame on you
Well, welcome to my blog, Dane.
I had a well-written response ready to post but a wise friend encouraged me to respond as Jesus would. Although there was nothing in my response I wouldn’t stand behind, or say face-to-face, I have decided to let your post stand on its own, but it's tough I tell you.
I’m willing to extend some grace and allow for your lack of experience in paid ministry and the slight possibility you may have some buried fear of having your own bubble popped explain your readiness to discount what my personal experience has been.
I would however like to clarify to whom you intended to direct this comment:
“To someone who can't handle the rigors of church ministry (and life in general), please get out of the way. There's someone who can do your job much better than you, can work with people who aren't so considerate of your decisions, and who have a clue how to lead a ministry.” [Now there’s something I could hear Jesus saying…]
I would also like to clarify what options “someone” might have for “getting out of the way” of “life in general”. Suicide seems a bit extreme. Suicide of the soul or personal integrity seems a bit much to ask as well.
I apologize for not removing your comments to Jenn. I was hoping to do that before she read them. I thought they were out of line myself. If the intentions to help them are strictly being Jesus’ hands and feet, it shouldn’t matter where they go anyway.
Thanks for your thoughts-and for owning them. Good luck on those ministry opportunities you’re applying for. I'd consider working that paragraph above into your resume. [Okay...maybe Jesus wouldn't have left that last comment in there...]
Jenn-apologies.
Daner,
I want to thank you for teaching me a valuable lesson today, the guilt of replying at all is eating me alive.
It is exactly what I preach against.... Misinterpretation is the root of many evils... if you stand mute there is nothing to answer for and then be accountable for. Some see this as a cowards way, but from your interpretation of my confusion alone I just proved it is the only way..........Funny thing I always thought communication was a good thing.........
Ret,
I love you ,thank you for trying to sheild me but it was a good lesson. As you know the best leasson hurt the worst :o) Thanks for what you said and Pam I weep with you, and pray for your next walk in misitry to be be... lace......... Much love J
spell ck.... shield,,,,, lesson,,, give me some slack I had to type thru tears :o)J
It's a blog. wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
Hi David. And I'm keeping my hands up:)
I'll gladly accept the "jerk of the week" award if it meant being a bit
bold.
I'll be honest. I'm tired of hearing about people leaving MPCC. It seems
to be the "in" thing to do these days. Just when I think it's time to move
on, I hear about someone else leaving Madison Park and it sucks. So when I
hear about someone struggling about "where God wants them", I just assume
that they're leaving too. Everyone else I've heard say that ends up
leaving, so why would this be any different. I commend those who are
willing to stay with the family and press on. I also appreciate those who
are willing to publicly talk about what they're feeling. When someone fails to do that, how are we supposed to know what they're dealing with??
I just walk through the halls and miss seeing certain people I love.
Loretta, I miss being up in the booth and listening to your voice through my headphones. I miss those that feel that they need to worship at another
place. But am I considered one of these "Pharisees" because I continue to
believe in what we're doing here; as if by staying here, I'm condoning
what's going on. If I support our leadership and our staff, am I considered a hypocritically self-righteous person? I still love you guys; I still love everyone who has fled this place. But seeing everythiny from afar, it just seems so silly. I remember being told the same thing by some of those who are no longer attending Madison Park when it came to my own problems. And in the end, they were correct: It was silly. And I also wasn't willing to trade in my commitment to others for my own personal satisfaction. I had a commitment to fulfill to Christ, the body of Madison Park, and to a piano player. And even though there were rough times and nights where I felt used and abused, I was more concerned about the ministry of the church than my own needs.
I do realize it's impossible to sum up what we feel on the inside with
simple words, but what else are we supposed to do?? I don't mind listening
to others. I think doing so is important and that there is a time and place for that. If our intentions are pure, talking about it won't be gossip. I would rather someone talk to me than let their feelings and emotions fester in their heart. But the sooner we get our priorities straight, the sooner we can move on.
Dane,
One thing bothers me about your whine of people leaving.... It happens... have you ever taken the time to ask why they left???? Have you as a member offered love and support to those in need??? Have you at any time in these last months been a shoulder to cry on for those struggling? Are you unconfortable speaking to those who left? Because you seem to be one of the ones to be angry they left, but forget to ask why... It is not always the same answer..... I think we have forgotten our christian duty, to love no matter what. Sometimes it is better to shut up and listen rather than to scrutenize..... Hard? Yes . necessary?. Yes.... If you are going to make it in leadership..... LISTEN to the TEARS of wisdom, and experience around you!..... sometimes just listening is all God expects from us.
Dane ,be very careful of assuming the phrase in the future "where God wants me". Because it is one of those times you should have listened with your heart not spoke with your mouth, If you truly knew me you would have been able to disipher what I was saying......... LISTEN ....
Hello all,
I have waited a few days to post any reply in order to gather thoughts and feelings that were quite forcefully stirred in previous posts.
Daner,
Hey there...I miss you too. I sense a lot of emotion and hostility in your original post. I admit to being hurt and offended at the thought of being called a "Ministry Wuss" by a well-meaning youngster who has never been in paid ministry. I choose not to get into a heated debate over a blog on specific issues but must agree that if you feel this strongly, I highly recommend that you start asking people what would cause them to leave their home and their family. I suggest that the reasons for leaving are a great deal more substantial than "it's the in-thing to do." I fully understand that there are those out there who really don't want to know, they prefer to stay in the dark where they don't have to make any changes. I ask that you please remember the hearts of those who left and pray for the whole "body", no matter their geographic location.
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